Hearings Before the President's Commission

on the

Assassination of President Kennedy

TESTIMONY OF JOHNNY CALVIN BREWER

The testimony of Johnny Calvin Brewer was taken at 3:15 p.m., on April 2, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. David W. Belin, assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. BELIN. Will you stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. BREWER. I do.

Mr. BELIN. Would you please state your name for the record?

Mr. BREWER. Johnny Calvin Brewer.

Mr. BELIN. How old are you, Mr. Brewer?

Mr. BREWER. Twenty-two.

Mr. BELIN. Where do you live?

Mr. BREWER. 512 North Lancaster, apartment 102.

Mr. BELIN. What city and state?

Mr. BREWER. Dallas, Tex.

Mr. BELIN. Were you born in Texas?

Mr. BREWER. Born in Miami, Okla.

Mr. BELIN. In Oklahoma?

Mr. BREWER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. When did you move to Texas?

Mr. BREWER. About 2 years after I was born. My father was foreman on a construction company and we moved to Texas.

Mr. BELIN. Where did you go to school in Texas, please, sir?

Mr. BREWER. I went first year in Lockhart. The second year we moved to Houston, for a year, and we moved back to Lockhart, and I went there 10 years in Lockhart.

Mr. BELIN. You graduated from high school?

Mr. BREWER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Did you go to school after you graduated from high school?

Mr. BREWER. I went to Southwest Texas State Teachers College in San Marcos a year, and a year in Nixon Clay Business College in Austin.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mr. BREWER. I got married and quit school and went to work for Hardy's Shoe Store. I--that was in September, and I got married in December. And I have been with them ever since.

Mr. BELIN. When did you go to work for Hardy's Shoe Store?

Mr. BREWER. In September of 1961.

Mr. BELIN. Do they assign you to any particular store?

Mr. BREWER. I worked at the Capital Plaza Shopping Center in Austin for about 10 months, and then they transferred me to Dallas and gave me a store down on Jefferson.

Mr. BELIN. In Austin were you just a shoe salesman?

Mr. BREWER. I was assistant manager.

Mr. BELIN. And they transferred you to a shop on Jefferson?

Mr. BREWER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. In Dallas?

Mr. BREWER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. What is the address of that shop in Dallas?

Mr. BREWER. 213 West Jefferson.

Mr. BELIN. They made you the manager of that shop?

Mr. BREWER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. How long have you been manager?

Mr. BREWER. Since August of 1962.

Mr. BELIN. From August 1962 on?

Mr. BREWER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Until the present time?

Mr. BREWER. Until the day I was made manager of the downtown store.

Mr. BELIN. Today is the 2d of April, or the 3d?

Mr. BREWER. Second.

Mr. BELIN. You were made manager of the Hardy's Downtown Shoe Store?

Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir. It wasn't April Fool's. I thought they were firing me, but it turned out they weren't.

Mr. BELIN. Did he call you in yesterday to tell you?

Mr. BREWER. Day before yesterday and told me to get ready for an audit, that I would be going to town, if I wanted it, and I said yes.

Mr. BELIN. Would this be considered a promotion?

Mr. BREWER. A better store, more volume, and make more money. It would be considered a promotion.

Mr. BELIN. Any children at all, Mr. Brewer?

Mr. BREWER. No.

Mr. BELIN. I want to take you back to November 22, 1963. This was the day that President Kennedy was assassinated. How did you find out about the assassination, Mr. Brewer?

Mr. BREWER. We were listening to a transistor radio there in the store, just listening to a regular radio program, and they broke in with the bulletin that the President had been shot. And from then, that is all there was. We listened to all of the events.

Mr. BELIN. Did you hear over the radio that the President had died?

Mr. BREWER. I heard a rumor. They said that--one of the Secret Service men said that the President had died, and said that was just a rumor.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember hearing anything else over the radio concerning anything that happened that afternoon?

Mr. BREWER. Well, they kept reconstructing what had happened and what they had heard, and they talked about it in general. There wasn't too much to talk about. They didn't have all the facts, and just repeated them mostly. And they said a patrolman had been shot in Oak Cliff.

Mr. BELIN. Is Oak Cliff the area in which your shoe store was located?

Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. All right, would you describe what happened after you heard on the radio that an officer had been shot?

Mr. BREWER. Well, there was heard a siren coming down East Jefferson headed toward West Jefferson.

Mr. BELIN. What is the dividing street between East and West Jefferson?

Mr. BREWER. Beckley.

Mr. BELIN. How far is Beckley from your store?

Mr. BREWER. Two blocks.

Mr. BELIN. Two blocks to the east or to the west?

Mr. BREWER. There is Zangs to the east. The first street is Zangs and the next street is Beckley.

Mr. BELIN. The first street east is Zangs Boulevard and the next street is Beckley?

Mr. BREWER. Yes, right.

Mr. BELIN. Is your store located to the north or south side of Jefferson?

Mr. BREWER. On the north.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. BREWER. I looked up and out towards the street and the police cars----

Mr. BELIN. When you looked up, did you step out of the store at all?

Mr. BREWER. No; I was still in the store behind the counter, and I looked up and saw the man enter the lobby.

Mr. BELIN. When you say the lobby of your store, first let me ask you to describe how is--how wide is your store, approximately?

Mr. BREWER. About 20 feet.

Mr. BELIN. All right, is the entrance to your store right on the sidewalk?

Mr. BREWER. The entrance to the store is about 15 feet from the sidewalk, front doors.

Mr. BELIN. The front doors?

Mr. BREWER. Yes; they are recessed, and then there is windows, show windows on each side.

Mr. BELIN. This would be, if we were--if we would take a look at the letter "U," or see the letter "V," your doorway would be at the bottom part of the letter and the show cases would be at the sides of the letter, is that correct?

Mr. BREWER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. What you call this lobby, that is the area between the sidewalk and your front door, is that correct?

Mr. BREWER. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. All right, you saw a man going into what you referred to as this lobby area?

Mr. BREWER. Yes; and he stood there with his back to the street.

Mr. BELIN. When did he go in now? What did you hear at the time that he stepped into this lobby area?

Mr. BREWER. I heard the police cars coming up Jefferson, and he stepped in, and the police made a U-turn and went back down East Jefferson.

Mr. BELIN. Where did he make the U-turn?

Mr. BREWER. At Zangs.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember the sirens going away?

Mr. BREWER. Yes; the sirens were going away. I presume back to where the officer had been shot, because it was back down that way. And when they turned and left, Oswald looked over his shoulder and turned around and walked up West Jefferson towards the theatre.

Mr. BELIN. Let me hold you a minute. You used the word Oswald. Did you know who the man was at the time you saw him?

Mr. BREWER. No.

Mr. BELIN. So at the time, you didn't know what his name was?

Mr. BREWER. No.

Mr. BELIN. Will you describe the man you saw?

Mr. BREWER. He was a little man, about 5'9", and weighed about 150 pounds is all.

Mr. BELIN. How tall are you, by the way?

Mr. BREWER. Six three.

Mr. BELIN. So you say he was about 5'9"?

Mr. BREWER. About 5'9".

Mr. BELIN. And about 150?

Mr. BREWER. And had brown hair. He had a brown sports shirt on. His shirt tail was out.

Mr. BELIN. Any jacket?

Mr. BREWER. No.

Mr. BELIN. What color of trousers, do you remember?

Mr. BREWER. I don't remember.

Mr. BELIN. Light or dark?

Mr. BREWER. I don't remember that either.

Mr. BELIN. Any other clothing that you noticed?

Mr. BREWER. He had a T-shirt underneath his shirt.

Mr. BELIN. Was his shirt buttoned up all the way?

Mr. BREWER. A couple of buttons were unbuttoned at the time.

Mr. BELIN. Light complexioned or dark?

Mr. BREWER. Light complexioned.

Mr. BELIN. All right. After you saw him in the lobby of your store there, what you call a lobby area, which is really kind of an extension of the sidewalk, then you saw him leave?

Mr. BREWER. Yes, he turned and walked up toward----

Mr. BELIN. Had the police sirens subsided at the time he turned, or not?

Mr. BREWER. No; you could still hear sirens.

Mr. BELIN. Did they sound like they were coming toward you or going away?

Mr. BREWER. They were going away at that time.

Mr. BELIN. Going the other way?

Mr. BREWER. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. How could you tell?

Mr. BREWER. They were getting further in the distance.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you see this man do?

Mr. BREWER. He turned and walked out of the lobby and went up West Jefferson toward the theatre, and I walked out the front and watched him, and he went into the theatre.

Mr. BELIN. What theatre is that?

Mr. BREWER. Texas Theatre.

Mr. BELIN. Why did you happen to watch this particular man?

Mr. BREWER. He just looked funny to me. Well, in the first place, I had seen him some place before. I think he had been in my store before. And when you wait on somebody, you recognize them, and he just seemed funny. His hair was sort of messed up and looked like he had been running, and he looked scared, and he looked funny.